Villaroger WIP

[Picasso2]

I have tried to capture this quaint little French village
that we skied to for lunch on a trip to the French Alps in February. I'm not sure that I have captured the textures of stone, wood and snow properly, so would be grateful for any suggestions and any other comments on the drawing as a whole.
Thanks
Jean

[Mike Sibley]

This is a fascinating scene, but I don't think I'm seeing it the way I should be, because it's lacking depth.

JEAN-French-Village.jpg

I'm fine with the building on the left. On the right is a fence leading to a building set at an angle. Alongside that - or further back (it's difficult to tell) is a light coloured building with steps to its left-hand side. Those steps appear to run directly from the end of the left-hand building... but... I doubt they do, because there's snow at their base that suggests they're set back. And then if I look up, there's another roof, so those steps are a whole building back from the foreground building.

Then in the foreground are logs that I know are round, because their ends tell me that. But their sides are flat, and edges soft. I'm left wondering if those logs would be fully in the foreground if they had good three-dimensional modelling? I think it would. Then...

You know, I think that might be the answer... there are soft edges throughout, so everything appears to be equally distant. Soft edges belong in the background - they tell us things are in the distance. I understand that soft edges are probably a property of pastels, but sharp foreground edges do matter.

I've no doubt you'll be seeing this exactly as you saw it in life. But I wasn't there, so I have to depend on you to describe it to me... and some bits, like depth, are missing.

For example, just behind the logs are two sharp-edged steps with an equally sharp railing. Then, I think, those steps turn and proceed up to the door... but they suddenly go so soft and indistinct that I can't be certain.

Now, all that said, I really do like the scene and admire the way you've rendered it, so don't let my thoughts influence your own opinion.

[Picasso2]

That's really helpful feed back Mike, and has definitely given me a lot to work on! I haven't attempted a scene like this with pastel pencil before, so felt that I was getting a bit lost.
Thanks
Jean

[Mike Sibley]

Phewwwww! Thank you.

I'd rather tell it honestly as I see it, but I was worried that I'd gone too far... On the other hand, gratuitous praise is worthless, and dishonesty is dangerous. But it's been on my mind that I probably could have worded it more gently.

I still think the "problem" (and we all have it) is you know what that experience was like, and that will be overlaid onto what you're drawing. But we haven't been there, so we're relying on you to describe the scene in such a way that we can clearly understand it. And if that involves exaggerating depth - as my work often does - or being economical with the truth, then that's what it needs.

May I suggest that you try a quick pencil sketch or two before you begin your pastel work. Nothing fancy - quick and dirty is OK. The chances are that will show up any potential problems before you reach them, and give you a chance to find solutions. Although, I find the solutions often appear while you're actually working on the final drawing - but you need to be aware of them first.

[Laurene]

This is a very interesting thread.

Jean this is such a complex scene! I admire you for taking it on. I immediately get the feeling of a cozy little French village in the mountains.

Mike’s expert eye has zeroed in on difficult areas. It’s not easy for us to assess our own work, but that’s why a forum like this is so precious! We can all benefit from each other’s input.

I’m looking forward to seeing more!

[Picasso2]

Thanks so much for your comments Mike and Laurene and I definitely DON'T want gratuitous praise or sugar coated comments, Mike.
I agree with you, Laurene, that the forum is valuable for alerting us to things that we may not see when we are too close to a subject.
I knew that this would be difficult, and even having been there, I still found some areas in the photo difficult to interpret, but it was such a charming little village that I just had to try, even though it was probably way beyond my expertise.
I had put this aside and started on a different drawing, but am wondering (and I do want an honest answer) is it salvageable or am I better off to abandon it and start afresh?
Thanks again
Jean

[Laurene]

My knee jerk reaction reaction is always to stick with it until I feel it’s the best I can do, but then that’s easy to say when working with graphite or digitally, both of which are more easily correctable than pastel, I believe.

You know how correctable pastel is or isn’t , so just follow your instincts, or hopefully Linda is reading this and can offer advice.

This is a wonderful subject, but there’s no point in letting art frustrate us, in my opinion. If you’re enjoying it, then definitely keep working or start over. Mike’s advice of editing a reference to remove unnecessary detail is a great way to go too!

[Picasso2]

Good advice Laurene and yes it is a good idea to source other references - only problem is that this is a tiny little village, not easily accessible and certainly not touristy, hence it is difficult to find many photos of it. Of course it would have been great if I could have done some sketches on the spot, but that was impossible, as we had skied to it for lunch with our ski instructor and the rest of the class, so no time for that. I must admit that at the time I just quickly took the photo and didn't really look at it closely until I decided to draw it
At least if all else fails, I may get another chance as we are returning in February next year, so if there is a free day we can ski back to it and spend more time there to closely observe the areas that are of concern and get a better idea.

[LindasPencils]

hence it is difficult to find many photos of it.

Jean, you know you don't 'need' a photo of it - this is just as we have discussed earlier this term together. You have the vision in your mind, you have the imagination and knowledge to fill in the blanks. Drawing from your imagiantion is just drawing from your known experience and techique. Mike and Laurene's advice is invaluable and have lead you in the right direction, but don't forget that your drawings don't need to be an exact copy of a photographed scene.
You can do it! It is certainly 'salvageable'. My advice (which might be a bit different from Mike's, so choose which suits you best):
1. You are trying to get too much detail with your pastels, focus in on the areas that you feel are most important for your sharp pencil detail
2. I don't mind soft. The way you draw from what I have seen, is usually in a soft focus, but as Mike indicates, you need to decide what is your focal point and have that sharp before softening off.
3. But the sharpness is the last thing you do, with quick strokes in darks and lights. Don't try for detail until you have established the blocks of tones and shapes
4. Layering. and more layering. The brown kinda puts me off because you have just pulled a brown pencil out and used that straight. I know I bang on about this too much in class, but I would have been tempted to use that indigo blue in blocks all over first, then build up to the browns.
... but please return to this as it is a great scene and you are well on your way with it. Like Laurene says, pastel can be worked over and over again, removed and then worked again, so you can play with this as much as you like until you are happy.

BTW, I LOVED your lion pastel you have just shown at the Victorian Artist Society AGRA show!!! You need to show it here as well please. It is a lovely work, you captured a lazy lion relaxing in the sun perfectly.

[Picasso2]

Only just seen this Linda as I must admit I haven't been into the forum for a while! As usual really great advice. This is something that I really do have to work on as I know I have a tendancy to try to put in too much detail.
You say that the pastel can be worked over and over again, so should I attempt to remove all detail first and if so what is the best way to do this without making a horrible mess??
Thanks again for all the helpful advice
Jean