PLATE-FINISH Papers choice

[Mike Sibley]

If you, like me, prefer a smooth paper without an interfering texture, then you might already be drawing on Conqueror, or another plate-finish paper.

Well, Conqueror went into receivership, but the main wholesaler has taken over production. However, that does not include the 250gsm weight that I use and stock in my online shop. (I have about 30 sheets - PM or email me if you'd like to purchase any.)

Rather than try to explain everything here. I've just completed a 19-minute video that compares the two alternatives - 320gsm Conqueror Diamond White and 240gsm Olin Ultimate White.

I would very much welcome your views on either or both papers. My intention, initially, is to stock both. But your thoughts will help me make the final decision.

So, please let me know here in this post if you have a paper preference.
Click the icon in the video for full-screen viewing...


Or watch and post your comment here: OLIN vs CONQUEROR Papers

[Scribbler]

Hello Mike;
Your demonstration shows that both paper have their pro and cons. 320gsm Conqueror seems to be an indestructible paper. So I would have opted for that.

[LindasPencils]

Hi Mike,
good review showing pros and cons to both.
Personally, I like a little more tooth to my paper. But this is because I will often use water mediums as an undertone/drawing. I have found the Conqueror slips and pools a little too much for my likeing when using washes. These plate finish papers tend to reject washes a bit.
My thoughts:
- I suspect that the Olin would scan or photograph very well as it is such a bright white. I have found that cool whites are easier to scan and adjust the white point to than the creamy whites. So that could be a plus for the Olin.
- But... I think the Olin would be too slippy and shiny for my personal technique. As I said, I like a little bit of tooth to my hot press paper.
- Because I use washes, I like to use at least a 300gsm, so that is a plus. Shipping weight doesn't bother me too much, if that is the paper I want then I am happy to pay the price.
- Question, will the 320 'roll' without creasing or denting? A dent in the paper can ruin your areas of tone (as you know). Maybe you can do a quick roll test to see how it stands up to this. Otherwise have you considered shipping flat?
- Your sample pack idea is excellent. I will have to pick some up just to try and maybe be converted.

[Laurene]

Hi Mike,

Firstly, thank you for your clear and precise presentation. It's something I've always appreciated about the manner in which you teach and explain a subject.

I think I would lean toward the Conqueror. I'm a little worried that the total lack of tooth on the Olin might make layering more problematic. As well, I wonder if the graphite would smudge more easily on such a slippery surface. The stark white colour is also off putting to me. Having said all that, it would be fun to try a simpler drawing on it, but if I'm going to spend many hours on a detailed drawing, I would definitely choose the Conqueror.

[Mike Sibley]

320gsm Conqueror seems to be an indestructible paper. So I would have opted for that.

"Indestructible" describes it very well. That long-grain structure really does make it almost bomb-proof.

Personally, I like a little more tooth to my paper. I have found the Conqueror slips and pools a little too much for my liking when using washes.
My thoughts:
- I think the Olin would be too slippy and shiny for my personal technique. I like a little bit of tooth to my hot press paper.
- Question, will the 320 'roll' without creasing or denting? A dent in the paper can ruin your areas of tone (as you know).

Over the years I've developed a way of rolling papers. As the second turn begins, I've learnt to tighten the roll further by gently squeezing. Sounds bad, but works a treat. In other words, I've learnt to roll quite tightly without causing any damage.

Most folk at the other end - so I'm told - roll them the other way, and then lay them flat under a few books for a day or two.

And as for "dents"... Those 50 sheets of Ivorex I bought? The guy who loaded them into my car, dented them all with his fingers. I didn't discover until later. But for every drawing, I had to press that dent to the drawing board as I drew over that area. So, I try really hard to NOT cause dents.

Otherwise, have you considered shipping flat?

Flat is only really an option for 30 sheets or more. Below that, it's cheaper to ship 20 in two tubes. That was true until recently. I used to ship by Royal Mail, and ship 30 sheets or more by courier (like FedEx). Now I ship almost exclusively by courier. However, flat packing requires more packaging than rolling, so it's more expensive for smaller orders. Also, I shipped flat between sheets of 2mm MDF. That used to cost £2 per parcel, but MDF has more than tripled in price lately.

Your sample pack idea is excellent. I will have to pick some up just to try and maybe be converted.

Rather than ship A2 sheets, I'm thinking of cutting them into four, so Sample Packs would contain four A4 sized sheets of both papers - usable but less waste if a paper doesn't work out. And much cheaper to ship in an A4 envelope.

I think I would lean toward the Conqueror. I'm a little worried that the total lack of tooth on the Olin might make layering more problematic.

When I changed from Mellotex to Conqueror, I sent you both Conqueror and Olin to try. That time you favoured Olin... but I chose Conqueror because it was much easier for me to source (Olin was a US paper then). Now my supplier is manufacturing both, so that's not a problem.

I was surprised by how smooth and slippery Olin is, but I very quickly discounted that "fault" because smooth darks were so easy to obtain. There's a two-day gap between the first and second parts of the video. And I edited it down to 20 minutes by cutting parts out. One part covered layering, but both papers performed well, so it was redundant.

But I did, and still do, find the lack of feedback from the Olin to be a problem. I'm used to a little effort being used to draw on Conqueror Diamond White, and that effort transmits back to my hand to aid control. Olin is like skating on ice. There's some feel, but not much. However, it's a cheaper paper than Conqueror Diamond White, so I'll buy in a couple of packs in case anyone finds it suits them. Or it might suit a particular drawing that demands a paper with almost no visible texture.

I wonder if the graphite would smudge more easily on such a slippery surface. The stark white colour is also off-putting to me.

It looks like it should smudge, but doesn't seem to. Blending on the two papers felt the same, too. And I agree about the colour. Compared to the Conqueror, which I've seen as being bright white, Olin has a cold blue tint that makes Conqueror look cream. But I visually and emotionally prefer the warmth of the Conqueror.

Having said all that, it would be fun to try a simpler drawing on it, but if I'm going to spend many hours on a detailed drawing, I would definitely choose the Conqueror.

Me too. And to save you time ... I found your drawings from 2016:
CONQUEROR DIAMOND WHITE:

Laurene-Test-CQD.jpg

OLIN (type unknown):

Laurene-Test-OLIN.jpg

Now, those are what I call proper tests!

And this is what you had to say at that time:
In both cases, I limited myself to 2H, HB, and 2B pencils as well as graphite powder so that the results would be comparable. I chose raccoons as subjects because they allowed for a wide range of values.
• STURDINESS: The edge Conqueror paper tore when tape was removed. Both papers feel thinner than Mellotex (at least that was my impression), but have a firm and smooth surface which was easy to work with.
• DETAIL: I was able to control detail on both papers, but I found that the Olin paper smudged more easily.
• LAYERING: I was able to layer more easily on the Conqueror paper, again because the graphite had a tendency to smudge more easily on the Olin paper
• ERASING: I was able to erase very cleanly on both papers. I easily pulled out white hair using either Blu-Tack or a Tombow eraser.
• INDENTING: Worked very well on both papers.
• BLENDING: Blending with a 2H pencil over a 2B worked well on both papers, but I found I had a little more control with the Conqueror paper.
• GRAPHITE POWDER: Graphite powder went on smoothly on both paper and lifted well with Blu-Tack.
• SCANNING: Both paper scan well, which is important.

[Laurene]

Haha! Looks like I did a good job almost 10 years ago!!!

Well, here’s what I DO remember. I took a whole lot of Mellotex off your hands at the time because I’m such a creature of habit and I absolutely loved that paper! I still have some, as a matter of fact. Looks like I wasn’t the best person to ask about new papers! You can’t teach this old dog new tricks! LOL

Seriously, over the years I gravitated more towards a slow purposeful approach, so layering and lifting both took on much more importance for me. If someone succeeded in wrestling those last sheets of Mellotex out of my hands, I’d choose Conqueror over Olin.

[Clythie]

Mike, Thank you for including me but at the moment I am fighting eyesight problems. Cataract I have waited for 5 years to be done and now AMD in one eye. I have still, fingers crossed, one good eye but life is a struggle and it has slowed me down, so I prefer not to get involved as I am usually not up to date. I will plod on at my snails pace. I am happy.

The paper I use is just what I have here in my note books. I don't see using anything special in the near future.
Thank you for your support.

[Mike Sibley]

If someone succeeded in wrestling those last sheets of Mellotex out of my hands, I’d choose Conqueror over Olin.

Me too. But I think Olin might suit some people, and it's definitely cheaper, so I'm going to stock both. The worst that can happen is that a couple of hundred sheets of Olin will gather dust.

I'll order later today for delivery next week. Then, when I know the full costs, I'll set up a new page in my online shop for them. And I'll be sure to post all the info here.

[Mike Sibley]

Thank you for including me, but at the moment I am fighting eyesight problems. Cataract I have waited for 5 years to be done and now AMD in one eye.

I really hope you get that fixed soon. I don't have your problems, but I do have multiple floaters in one eye now, and double-vision when working close up. But at least I can still draw - if not for very long.

My Mother-in-Law had AMD, so I know it's treatable, and I really hope it's at least stabilised for you soon. And that your cataract is seen to very, very soon!

[Ksquared321]

Definitely the Conqueror. I feel slippery paper would not allow me to feel the lead on the paper or be in control my pencil. Kind of like a sports car….you don’t want power steering…you want to feel the road under your tires and want to feel in control.. I also like the idea of an incrementally heavier paper. Karen