Another wolf

[JayS]

Another wolf. Sorry it's a little dark. But it has more hair.
J

[PogArtTi]

Wow, ho ho hooo
JayS!
So many wolves around your house
Be careful, they do bite
It's interesting, that you always introducing background of the nature, to fulfill the main subject you drawing
Because of your enjoyable story tale last time, I'm tempted to ask if there's something special about those trees behind the wolf please?
Are they any unique trees that you've drawn for some purpose please?

[JayS]

Wolves are all around. They are my protectors. Growing up cowboy and living mostly outside for the first 30 years of my life I have always enjoyed wildlife. Further I try to learn everything I can about the wild ones. In addition I have had 11 dogs so far. Six of them have been German Shepherds. About as close as I can get to a domestic wolf. Living as I have with elk, deer, cougars and bears along with a coyote or two I can't help but study them and train them to do instantly (a big and not often met goal) what I want. Obedience comes only after understanding. Because domestic critters have a gene that makes them want to cooperate with humans teaching them is easier than their wild cousins who lack that gene. In my close encounters with bears and coyotes (my most frequent encounters) I have been met with far more curiosity than aggression. The most danger I've been in is when people who are absolutely ignorant about wildlife behavior become aggressive, yelling and screaming. I prefer to practice de-escalation with quiet conversational voice and warm welcoming tone. No threat, just conversation. It's also true that I don't try to deescalate cougars. Cats don't listen very well. The monopod is a great tool for keeping hostility beyond arm's length.

Background is in my drawings because it is the animal's home. If I draw a portrait the background will be missing because I'm wholly focused on the character of the animal. But when I draw the entire critter I want to include the background because it speaks to what makes the animal complete. The pine trees in this drawing are poor. I drew them just to learn how to do them. But the branches are overlarge and deformed. They also are uniform in their shading which is ignoring how light plays. Sometimes when I focus on form too closely I lose sight of the other things that make a qualitative difference. My bad. But doing is learning. I don't believe that there is real failure in any good faith attempt at creation. It may not come out the way I really want. None of my drawings have yet met my mental pictures of what should be. Maybe one in the next several hundred will. The really good news is that I really love the process of trying. Criticism matters because it tells me what others see especially when it is descriptive. Mike is really good at this. Consequently I know what to do with descriptive feedback. Thank you for yours.

[PogArtTi]

You always welcome.
I do enjoy your experience tale my friend.
I've been nowhere myself, just local adventures really, so listening to your broad picture of the life, nature, animals, and things you've been to it's very intriguing to me JayS
As a child I wanted to live with a wolf instead of dog.
Later I learnt that I can not expect the wolf to behave like the dog.
Thank you for story tale

[Mike Sibley]

I'm having a quiet Sunday morning before I brave the cold and go to muck out the chickens and ducks. So, I apologise in advance for what will probably be a very disjointed post.

In addition, I have had 11 dogs so far. Six of them have been German Shepherds. About as close as I can get to a domestic wolf. Living as I have with elk, deer, cougars and bears along with a coyote or two, I can't help but study them and train them to do instantly (a big and not often met goal) what I want.

We've had GSDs for as long as I can remember. Our current lovely girl Mia missed out on her early socialisation (we took her on at 18 months old), so she has ingrained bad habits. One being a recall of zero. She will come back... eventually... when she decides she wants to.

Obedience comes only after understanding. Because domestic critters have a gene that makes them want to cooperate with humans, teaching them is easier than their wild cousins who lack that gene.

Well, that's good news. But it's still not easy. She's decided she's "my dog", not Jenny's, however I'm just an anchor to tow on the end of a leash. But your wisdom leads me to believe we might eventually come to some agreement about who's in charge.

The most danger I've been in is when people who are absolutely ignorant about wildlife behavior become aggressive, yelling and screaming. I prefer to practice de-escalation with quiet conversational voice and warm welcoming tone.

Agreed. Not with bears and cougars, of which we have none, but wildlife in general. And I'll extend that to farm animals too. We used to keep sheep (Manx Loughtan) as did two of our former neighbours. I prefer the gentle way of herding, using slight hand movements when required to turn them this way or that. And thinking like a sheep to anticipate their actions. The neighbours preferred the "waving arms and yelling" method. On the odd occasion we worked together, they were a nightmare. But hedgehogs, even the rats, react much better to a calm approach... even if quietly conversing with a rat does look strange to non-rural folk.

But when I draw the entire critter, I want to include the background because it speaks to what makes the animal complete. The pine trees in this drawing are poor. I drew them just to learn how to do them. But the branches are overlarge and deformed. They also are uniform in their shading, which is ignoring how light plays. Sometimes when I focus on form too closely, I lose sight of the other things that make a qualitative difference.

Now that surprises me. You've lived with that scenery for a very long time, and I've no doubt it's ingrained in your memory. So, I'm wondering why that problem arises. For someone relatively new to drawing - and that's definitely not you - I'd assume the problem was one of concentrating on "drawing", That is, concentrating on values, form, grades to use, etc, rather than recreating the element as it exists in their mind. Or of drawing one element without making allowances for elements around it to modify it. Such as, drawing a branch of a tree without realising the branch above will cast a shadow on it.

I'm a bit stumped (is that just a British expression? ) - puzzled. You know those faults exist, yet you created them. When you drew the setting, did you begin at the back or the foreground? You might assume I'd start at the back and work forwards, but not in this case. I need to know the darkest values, so I'd begin with the foreground - maybe not all of it, but sufficient. Then I can gradually fade the scene with distance. I'm asking because there's a big jump from your foreground trees to immediate background - there's little midground.

Of course, it might be that there's a ravine or similar between the foreground and background. That appears to the case here, and it makes sense of the missing midground... But then the background trees appear to be very light (distant) but huge (close), which creates confusion... well, for me, it does

Have you considered drawing scenes - even small ones - without animals? Because I think you'd find that really useful. It might be that you have a head full of animal information, but you've not looked closely at anything else? Drawing it will fix the various elements in your mind, so you can call on them later.

I don't believe that there is real failure in any good faith attempt at creation. It may not come out the way I really want...

...but you'll be that bit closer to achieving it. I completely agree. The more you draw, the more you learn, and the more you tend to study the world around you with the eyes of an artist.

The really good news is that I really love the process of trying.

And that really is all you need.

[JayS]

I'm a bit stumped (is that just a British expression?

Not just a British expression. I've seen stumps every time I go into a forest, old growth or not. Of course, it could be that I've been stumped because I have some British in my Irish genetics. Are the Irish British too?

But then the background trees appear to be very light (distant) but huge (close), which creates confusion... well, for me, it does

Light trees in the background are in part because sunlight illuminated them. But I understand the confusion.

Have you considered drawing scenes - even small ones - without animals?

Yes, but I haven't done much of it. Need to. I have started carrying a sketchbook for that purpose.
I enjoy Arthur's and your comments, Mike.
I haven't figured out how to copy your comments with the shading and quotes.

[use the ""Full editor and Preview. Then you can use the "" double-quote tab over the text box. Or use the same tab (Reply with quote) above the post you want to answer, and then edit the quote as you wish.]

[Mike Sibley]

Light trees in the background are in part because sunlight illuminated them.

OK... I was trying not to go too deep with that thought. But...

Just in front of the wolf's front legs are two trees. I can obviously only see the top half of those trees, so there has to be a steep slope behind the wolf.

So far, so good.

But the trees on the other side of the valley, ravine, or whatever, are HUGE compared to those two trees. Maybe those two trees are just saplings - that's certainly possible. But I'd argue that you're telling a story, and that story isn't clear.

And not only is there a big jump in scale, there is also no shade between the background trees. I understand that shade might then affect the dominance of the foreground, but if those light trees are on the far slope of a ravine, they'd be shading the trees even further back.

I think I'm not explaining that well and might be complicating things, so I'll shut up

[PogArtTi]

I'm stumped [ ] following your conversation, just hitting such details regarding the background..., I don't want to get involved, because it's overwhelming me already...
I'm never getting this much precise towards the background thing, just because my preference is to focus onto the animal itself, so everything else is suppose to support my picture tale only, not to play equal role, if that comes in sense...

Let me now relate my answer to the previous Mike's story (Gernan Shepherd dogs) - if you don't mind friends?

I did try post it yesterday, but I was blocked off again

So your conversation went further, and I'm a bit behind with my post now - sorry

● I did enjoy your post Mike a lot, as always you're very good story *teller (I hope it's proper *English, lol).
You did remind me a crossed German Shepherd dog when I was serving in Polish Army (it was a must back in 1990's)...
So anyway, there was that dog on a leash, sorry it was the rope rather, lol...
One end of that rope was attached to the dog's collar, the other end was attached to sort of metal made wire going across the square the dog was...
So that dog could run nearly free across that area, thanks to this feature...
Anyway...
There was a fence around too, and it was far away from anybody's sight , so...

Once I released that dog, just willing to let him play freely for a wile while I'm there...
Well...
That dog once released went off like out of his conscious!
Enjoying his freedom, lol!
He didn't listen to me anymore!?
He was running around but not giving a s*** about me !?
I got scared at that point, as I realised I'm not as fast on my TWO legs to catch him up
Things went even worse, soon after the dog has found the ripped off hole in the fence and GOT OUT!!!
It wasn't funny anymore
I got scared I'm getting in a deep trouble because of my good heart, lol...
I went through out that fence hole too and knowing a bit about dogs - I started running away opposite direction to the dog, shouting..., to attract him...
It worked perfectly
Dog has started chasing me, so I caught him up easy when he got to me close enough ...
I put him back on his lead, and with shaking legs I went away...
Everything would be just like it’s never had happened, apart of ripped off back of my uniform, what must happened while I was getting throughout that hole!
Hahahaaa
It was very suspicious, but hopefully I got away with it
Lol
(So sorry for my poor English skills...)

[Mike Sibley]

Oh, that's a lovely story, Artur! Although not quite as lovely for you at the time

Mia will come back for Jenny... but she cheats. She just calls out "CHEESE" and Mia runs straight to her. But it only works if she's actually holding a piece of cheese.

...just hitting such details regarding the background..., I don't want to get involved, because it's overwhelming me already...
I'm never getting this much precisely, just because my preference is to focus onto the animal itself, so everything else is supposed to support my picture tale only, not to play equal role...

I said I was probably causing confusion. I'm not in any way suggesting so much work goes into the background that it competes with the foreground. I'm just saying that if you're going to include a background, it needs to conform to Nature, or it will look odd and confuse.

Disregarding the relative size of the trees - because that might be possible - I have a problem with the background trees because they lack any sense of depth. If you have two sapling telling us there's a ravine behind the wolf, then I expect to see the opposite side making sense of that.

It might be an opposite side sloping up to form a valley, or maybe the "ravine" is just flat land beneath a cliff. In either case, there is open space in the midground, so I'm seeing the "front" of the background that will then disappear into the distance. That's what missing - the recession between the trees. So, instead of being secondary, they now cause some confusion and drag my attention to them.

[PogArtTi]

Oh, that's a lovely story, Artur! Although not quite as lovely for you at the time

Damn right, lol

Mia will come back for Jenny... but she cheats. She just calls out "CHEESE" and Mia runs straight to her. But it only works if she's actually holding a piece of cheese.

It must be all about ... the cheese smell, lol
If Mia cannot smell it, the call doesn't work

I said I was probably causing confusion. I'm not in any way suggesting so much work goes into the background that it competes with the foreground. I'm just saying that if you're going to include a background, it needs to conform to Nature, or it will look odd and confuse.

My words weren't reflecting your comment at all Mike, you didn't cause any confusion to me.
My comment was suspended in the air, above your conversation to JayS ...
I'm playing a third party role, rather than relating to your comment in there...

My words were related to my own preference, and not connected directly to your conversation Mike.
I just did express what was on my mind, rather than replaying to your observation, if that come in sense.

And if I was after to treat the background as seriously as the main subject, and if I was after to make it as much important part of the artwork (JayS), then I'd *shape it the way to support the whole picture...

What I mean by shaping is that, I'd try to keep only important features (trees, bushes, stones, trunks etc.) that wouldn't distract the viewer, but guide him rather throughout the whole artwork.

If I can (can I JayS?) use your artwork as an example, I'd get rid of some trees that may disrupt the view.., and I would have focus onto important trees only, the ones that could frame the whole art rather, and the wolf.
So, any little trees sticking out randomly will be causing(to me)a bit of distraction...

I do agree to Mike's observation, and I can see that the trees are here, are there, are everywhere...
It is all alright, when you out there JayS, and enjoying those beautiful moments being surrounded by nature, but nature can be (and it is to me) chaotic in this unique natural way, it can be like a living room after husband-wife evening fight
And you are aware, that all that room features (trees, rocks, trunks in the nature) now on the floor ..., belongs to that living room...
Then imagine the neighbour (viewer) knocks to the door and making them wide open...
What he could see?
First thing he will notice is the mess around, rather than anything else...
He won't be guided to the coffee table, but rather distracted watching his steps, and trying to avoid trip over...

We are responsible to put that mess after an evening *fight (lol) in making sense order, rather than copy it as it is...
Lets put those pillows back on the sofa, move the rag on the floor by the door, push those chairs aside of the room, and the coffee table at the right spot...
So the neighbour(viewer) will safely find the way...

Nature can be like that family fight, it all belongs there, those trees and everything you can see...
But we will improve esthetic of our artwork, if we put the random features in the order, rather than copy it as we can see it while being there...

We aren't making TV documentary series, so we don't have to copy it as it goes (I think).
We're rather the creator, who's preparing the theatre event?

So we can choose the features on the stage, and make them in order, for those people that will come to appreciate what we've done...

You're the neighbour(viewer), and you're visiting your friends house(the nature) just after their fight(natural day by day living process)...
Make them calm , help them sort the mess in the living room, then safely walk in and enjoy the coffee they make for you - enjoy your art