Yellowstone River Otter

[JayS]

Thanks Wassie.

Mike, I going to have to work a lot harder on the splash! That's not the only thing. The bank has me going. My first impression is that it is a distraction. I'm going to stare at tit for a while.

[Mike Sibley]

I agree about the background - at present I think it's too contrasty, and attention grabbing. And it appears to be vertical, because it's the same overall value from bottom to top.

The splash needs some work, but it's definitely working well. My eye was drawn to it immediately. The water looks smoother too now, and those distracting little lines in it seem to have gone.

I'm thinking the splash looks slightly odd, because it's composed of a number of solid white shapes. The flying water drops look good, though.

The water splash is now the only white, so it's that that's attracting attention to it. Might you extend that to bright highlights within the belly of the fish? Although perhaps it's already very bright, and the camera is dulling it?"

The story itself is definitely coming alive now.

[JayS]

Looking at the original I see that the sameness of value from bottom to top is not as even as it is in the photo. Having said that I think that there is a lot of room to shift the values from bottom to top. I'll work on making the bottom darker and the top lighter.

Looking at your splash I noticed that you had a dark shadow at the bottom to ground the splash. Then as you moved up the water you created separation within the splash by your use of greys internal to and surrounding the splash. My imagination is short on defining the splash around the otter. The image doesn't have any definition and what you've said in the past about creating what I expect to see sticks with me. I've got to do something about that.

The belly of the fish is pure paper white. no graphite at all. I think, however, that I should increase the dark back of the fish to increase the contrast with the belly. This should make the belly look whiter.

My favorite comment from you is that the story itself is coming alive now. Yes!

Thanks!

[Mike Sibley]

Looking at your splash, I noticed that you had a dark shadow at the bottom to ground the splash. Then as you moved up the water, you created separation within the splash by your use of greys internal to and surrounding the splash....

I did? I usually just do whatever feels right. I suppose it has to look at least vaguely realistic, but if I need to stretch that to obtain the effect, I will.

I realise my problem with your splash is that I see them as shapes, not flying water. I don't have a solution, and it's only my opinion. The left-hand shape bothers me the most - because it reminds me of a rooster's comb. Maybe it needs some internal work? So it looks curved or dished or... well, not flat. And maybe a few light values inside it would brighten the edges to look more like they were flying up and catching the light... or maybe I'm using too many 'maybe's and talking nonsense

The belly of the fish is pure paper white. No graphite at all. I think, however, that I should increase the dark back of the fish to increase the contrast with the belly. This should make the belly look whiter.

Personally, I'd leave it as it is - especially as I now know the belly is white. The white belly will be doing its job, and I'd be concerned that darkening the back would lose it against its background. Selectively darkening the background might work, but I'm not sure if that's a necessity. You'll know better than me, because you have the original in front of you.

My favorite comment from you is that the story itself is coming alive now. Yes!

...and it is. Quite noticeably coming to life. Also, the water is less fussy and more fluid now, and no longer grabbing my attention. I'm really enjoying watching this grow.

[JayS]

Mike,
Thank you. I have become acutely aware of the importance of feedback. As you know I've written a book. If you can call 117 pages a book. It has gone out to over 50 people for review. About 12 have responded. Of these 2 corrected grammar and spelling. 8 have made random comments of what they liked and didn't. For example, one said he read it for facts he didn't know. And one wanted to know if I would name the characters who were speaking. Two others gave me a couple of pages of typewritten notes of detailed questions and in one case challenged my facts.
I mention this because your feedback is like the last. You see things and comment on them in depth. I learn so much and feel that I'm making progress as a result of your thoughts. Perhaps some people fear feedback because they think it in some way diminishes them. I look forward to it because I grow as a result of it. There is value beyond measure in seeing what you see. This is what I mean by growing. Thank you.
Come August it will be a year since I embarked on this adventure. In my mind I was trying to figure out how to get better. Your lessons give me insights that I had not thought of. But your feedback is of great value. In a few months I may ask you to look back over the last year of drawings and comment on any growth you see in my work. Not yet. In time. J.

[LindasPencils]

I love the way this work is coming together Jay. It has a strong personal style with a graphic feel to it - high contrasts and almost mosaic like details.
One artist whos work I appreciate and instructions have assisted me is Diane Wright - she used to comment on Mike's & JD's old forum a lot. She has a few books out and a very helpful website - this is on water and is well worth a look for future reference: http://www.dianewrightfineart.com/drawing-water-2.htm
As I have just spent all of this Term with my students drawing water I really understand and appreciate the journey you are taking and your results.

[Shmush]

I will be interested in seeing the final results. I like how this has already evolved from "just a picture" into an intriging story.

and I so agree with what you said about MIke

You see things and comment on them in depth. I learn so much and feel that I'm making progress as a result of your thoughts

Mike is quick to acknowledge great work, yet as a true teacher he tops it off with advice which can make it even better. In so doing we all benefit.

LindasPencils thank you for the water drawing link. I like Diane Wright's artwork, so look forward to checking this out. Just wondering, are you teaching adults or children?

this is on water and is well worth a look for future reference: http://www.dianewrightfineart.com/drawing-water-2.htm

[Mike Sibley]

...this is on water and is well worth a look for future reference: http://www.dianewrightfineart.com/drawing-water-2.htm

It's also well worth taking a look at PART 1. In fact, I think it's essential to the full understanding of PART 2:
http://www.dianewrightfineart.com/drawing-water-1.htm
And you can download Diane's PDF of the entire tutorial from either page.

Lots of good advice to be found.

[Mike Sibley]

But your feedback is of great value. In a few months, I may ask you to look back over the last year of drawings and comment on any growth you see in my work. Not yet. In time. J.

Please feel free to do that, Jay, and I'll be happy to help.

[LindasPencils]

Just wondering, are you teaching adults or children?

Hi Smush. I generally teach adults. Although I have Working With Children clearance most of my students are 30 or older. However, I will take students as young as 16 - seldom younger as too young can have difficulty concentrating for the full 2 hour classes. And teens often like to be on the phone too much. But that is not a rule, and the youngest I have taught was 13 years old - she is now at University working toward a Degree in Scientific Illustration.