Hi all:
I am a beginner (who started graphite later in life) and this is the first time I have posted any of my art work. I drew this tree after taking one of Mike's workshops and he was so kind to provide some instruction on how to draw trees. I have been working on this piece on and off and just did more work on "Still Holding On" last week.
I am looking forward to your feedback.
Thanks so much for your help.
Kathy
Still Holding On
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Still Holding On
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Re: Still Holding On
Hi Kathy and welcome! I love the subject you chose with as much emphasis on the roots as the leaves. It’s such an interesting and unique composition. Your drawing is beautiful and I hope we see more of your artwork soon.
Artists for Conservation: https://www.artistsforconservation.org/artists/5148
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PogArt-Ttoo
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Re: Still Holding On
Hi, I adore your tree very much too.
You've chosen very unique point of view, and it's making me wonder, if such tree may really grow like this anywhere on the Earth
Very detailed and nicely drawn composition.
Congratulation!
You've chosen very unique point of view, and it's making me wonder, if such tree may really grow like this anywhere on the Earth
Very detailed and nicely drawn composition.
Congratulation!
*History isn't there for You to like or dislike. It's there for You to learn from it. And if it offends you, even better. Because then You are less likely to repeat it. It's not yours to erase - It belongs to all of us...*
Re: Still Holding On
Thank you so much for your comments. Yes, this tree does actually exits. It is a Sitka spruce in Olympic National Park. The storms on the coast have created this cave under the tree. It is knows as the "Tree of Life", "Tree Root Cave" or "Kalaloch Tree". I had the opportunity to photograph and sketch this amazing tree when I visited the park. I would have loved the opportunity to return to the tree as I was drawing it, but I live on the east coast and this is on the west coast.
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PogArt-Ttoo
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Re: Still Holding On
Awesome story!kwheller wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:50 am It is knows as the "Tree of Life", "Tree Root Cave" or "Kalaloch Tree". I had the opportunity to photograph and sketch this amazing tree when I visited the park. I would have loved the opportunity to return to the tree as I was drawing it, but I live on the east coast and this is on the west coast.
I'm jealous now, lol, I probably won't have opportunity to see the tree on my own eyes ever
But, you know, there's saying - never say never
One day you may go there again, so may I?
Thanks for information!
*History isn't there for You to like or dislike. It's there for You to learn from it. And if it offends you, even better. Because then You are less likely to repeat it. It's not yours to erase - It belongs to all of us...*
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Mike Sibley
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Re: Still Holding On
There's something bothering me but I can't put my finger on it. But I'll try... 
The problem I have is at either side. The tree appears to have two "hands" hanging on for grim death to the banks. That's understandable. So, what's wrong?
I think there are two connected problems, but mainly because I can read this in two ways.
The right-hand side is clearer, so I'll concentrate on that. The roots divide and divide again into ever smaller roots but...
Are they entering the ground?
Or...
Are they hanging in space because the ground has fallen away?
I can't tell.
And if they're growing into the ground, what is that ground? Is it closely cropped grass? Or maybe smooth rock?
And, whether rock or grass, is it vertical? Or is it sloping towards us?
I think you're telling an interesting story but omitting some of the information that we need to understand it fully. Or, maybe you drew from a reference without working out what you were seeing?
I must say at this point that the tree itself works wonderfully well. It's just the two sides that trouble me.
According to the tree, the light is shining from the left and slightly forward of it. But other parts don't conform to that, so you lost depth. For example, the roots over the cave to the right of the tree, when I look closely, overlap each other. But none appear to be casting shadows on those behind, so the overall appearance is flat. The same applies to the roots at the left. Remember, you're telling a story - don't concern yourself with what the reference looks like, interpret it so you tell your story clearly. I'm resisting the urge to play with your drawing... so far successfully
...but I'm still troubled. If the rocks are rocks... what is the tree feeding on? And if the "rocks" are grassy mounds...?
OK, my curiosity got the better of me and now I know what it's on... I couldn't find a photo from exactly the same angle as yours - but it's close. It's clinging to a sandstone cliff at the back of a beach. Some roots are hanging in the air. Others grow into the thin soil on either side.
So, all that's missing from your story are the shadows within the roots and cliff. Personally, I think this would benefit overall from much stronger darks. That would give more contrast, and values to work with. And then I'd want to play with those roots and create three-dimensional depth - including shadows (and texture) within the cliff face. Not to the extent that it would dominate the tree, but to add more to the story being told.
But don't let my preferences take anything away from your drawing. It's a fascinating subject, and a lovely, well-drawn tree.
The problem I have is at either side. The tree appears to have two "hands" hanging on for grim death to the banks. That's understandable. So, what's wrong?
I think there are two connected problems, but mainly because I can read this in two ways.
The right-hand side is clearer, so I'll concentrate on that. The roots divide and divide again into ever smaller roots but...
Are they entering the ground?
Or...
Are they hanging in space because the ground has fallen away?
I can't tell.
And if they're growing into the ground, what is that ground? Is it closely cropped grass? Or maybe smooth rock?
And, whether rock or grass, is it vertical? Or is it sloping towards us?
I think you're telling an interesting story but omitting some of the information that we need to understand it fully. Or, maybe you drew from a reference without working out what you were seeing?
I must say at this point that the tree itself works wonderfully well. It's just the two sides that trouble me.
According to the tree, the light is shining from the left and slightly forward of it. But other parts don't conform to that, so you lost depth. For example, the roots over the cave to the right of the tree, when I look closely, overlap each other. But none appear to be casting shadows on those behind, so the overall appearance is flat. The same applies to the roots at the left. Remember, you're telling a story - don't concern yourself with what the reference looks like, interpret it so you tell your story clearly. I'm resisting the urge to play with your drawing... so far successfully
...but I'm still troubled. If the rocks are rocks... what is the tree feeding on? And if the "rocks" are grassy mounds...?
OK, my curiosity got the better of me and now I know what it's on... I couldn't find a photo from exactly the same angle as yours - but it's close. It's clinging to a sandstone cliff at the back of a beach. Some roots are hanging in the air. Others grow into the thin soil on either side.
So, all that's missing from your story are the shadows within the roots and cliff. Personally, I think this would benefit overall from much stronger darks. That would give more contrast, and values to work with. And then I'd want to play with those roots and create three-dimensional depth - including shadows (and texture) within the cliff face. Not to the extent that it would dominate the tree, but to add more to the story being told.
But don't let my preferences take anything away from your drawing. It's a fascinating subject, and a lovely, well-drawn tree.
Re: Still Holding On
Hi Mike:
Thank you so much for your very helpful feedback! I totally forgot about shadows for the roots and that will certainly make a difference and give more of a three dimensional look. I appreciate you bringing me back to the story I am trying to tell!
I was wondering if the cave should be even darker so I will give that a try. Before I submitted it, I had darkened it some, so it's going in the right direction. I tend to go light so I appreciate the encouragement to give more contrast and make it darker. I seem to be tentative regarding going really dark.
I am struggling with the sandstone cliff face. I really wish it had been out of rock or something like your piece, "Overlooked" (of which your print is right beside me). I have drawn rocks and such, but sandstone is hard for me to artistically grasp the texture and shadows of it. I wish I was back on the beach and could touch the cliff to help me understand (in addition to the multiple photos and reference material on cliffs).
Thanks for helping me go in the right direction!
Thank you so much for your very helpful feedback! I totally forgot about shadows for the roots and that will certainly make a difference and give more of a three dimensional look. I appreciate you bringing me back to the story I am trying to tell!
I was wondering if the cave should be even darker so I will give that a try. Before I submitted it, I had darkened it some, so it's going in the right direction. I tend to go light so I appreciate the encouragement to give more contrast and make it darker. I seem to be tentative regarding going really dark.
I am struggling with the sandstone cliff face. I really wish it had been out of rock or something like your piece, "Overlooked" (of which your print is right beside me). I have drawn rocks and such, but sandstone is hard for me to artistically grasp the texture and shadows of it. I wish I was back on the beach and could touch the cliff to help me understand (in addition to the multiple photos and reference material on cliffs).
Thanks for helping me go in the right direction!
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Mike Sibley
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Re: Still Holding On
This is the reference I found that most closely matches your drawing. I can't comment on your reference because even the time of day it was taken will make a difference in its appearance.
If I was to draw this - it's a lovely subject to tackle! - I'd be looking at...
The shade beneath the left-hand roots, which tell me the rock is recessed and the roots are overhanging it.
The subtle cast shadows overall that clearly show me which root is forward of another.
In this reference I can see the rear wall of the cave (most don't show it) and that interests me. But, more importantly, that wall deepens into totally dark shade at the top. That's to be expected - the tree prevents light directly shining there - but it also means I can use it to make those masses of hanging roots stand out. They MUST have sharp edges, otherwise they'll blend back into the shade and you'll lose depth.
I'm not sure how I'd handle this at present, but I'm interested in the tree gaining its sustenance from the left-hand side. The roots at the right only help to hold it up. It might be a part of the story I'd want to incorporate.
You've captured the bark and foliage textures very well. Try to do the same for the rock. Fortunately (for me) I'm a bit of geek when it comes to rocks or fossils - although I don't remember as much as I used to know I'm quite certain this is sandstone. Mentally run your fingers over it. How does it feel? Sharp and gritty? Now you're looking for a technique that suggests the surface you can "feel". Stippling might be one solution.
The rock isn't flat. This is your drawing - your world - so you don't have to mimic the reference - but you do need to tell us something about it. The banding at the right-hand side says "layers" and "sandstone", or at least "sedimentary". There are subtle bands at the left too, which I'd want to emphasise a little.
That'll do for now I don't want to cause confusion. I appreciate that you are probably still at the stage of thinking about HOW to draw something, but you need to begin to think about WHAT and WHY as well. Why does this interest you? And what do you want to say about it?
And if there isn't a story and the What and Why are both "it's a challenge", that's perfectly acceptable too. But apply the same story-telling thought, so you understand what you're drawing - not just copying what you see.
If I was to draw this - it's a lovely subject to tackle! - I'd be looking at...
The shade beneath the left-hand roots, which tell me the rock is recessed and the roots are overhanging it.
The subtle cast shadows overall that clearly show me which root is forward of another.
In this reference I can see the rear wall of the cave (most don't show it) and that interests me. But, more importantly, that wall deepens into totally dark shade at the top. That's to be expected - the tree prevents light directly shining there - but it also means I can use it to make those masses of hanging roots stand out. They MUST have sharp edges, otherwise they'll blend back into the shade and you'll lose depth.
I'm not sure how I'd handle this at present, but I'm interested in the tree gaining its sustenance from the left-hand side. The roots at the right only help to hold it up. It might be a part of the story I'd want to incorporate.
You've captured the bark and foliage textures very well. Try to do the same for the rock. Fortunately (for me) I'm a bit of geek when it comes to rocks or fossils - although I don't remember as much as I used to know
I'm quite certain this is sandstone. Mentally run your fingers over it. How does it feel? Sharp and gritty? Now you're looking for a technique that suggests the surface you can "feel". Stippling might be one solution.The rock isn't flat. This is your drawing - your world - so you don't have to mimic the reference - but you do need to tell us something about it. The banding at the right-hand side says "layers" and "sandstone", or at least "sedimentary". There are subtle bands at the left too, which I'd want to emphasise a little.
I don't think the cave can be too dark. Especially near the top. The darker it is, the deeper the cave. The more you lighten your darks, the flatter your drawing will look. You have "Overlooked!" near you - imagine how flat those brambles around the rabbit would look if the background darks were a mid to pale grey...I was wondering if the cave should be even darker... I tend to go light, so I appreciate the encouragement to give more contrast and make it darker. I seem to be tentative regarding going really dark.
That'll do for now
I don't want to cause confusion. I appreciate that you are probably still at the stage of thinking about HOW to draw something, but you need to begin to think about WHAT and WHY as well. Why does this interest you? And what do you want to say about it? And if there isn't a story and the What and Why are both "it's a challenge", that's perfectly acceptable too. But apply the same story-telling thought, so you understand what you're drawing - not just copying what you see.
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PogArt-Ttoo
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Re: Still Holding On
I did immerse fully to your study of the tree matter Mike.
Thank you for your enthusiasm to dig the reference out, and to provide us with your wise feedback.
Thank you my friend
I'm sure that kwheller thinks the same...
Thank you for your enthusiasm to dig the reference out, and to provide us with your wise feedback.
Thank you my friend
I'm sure that kwheller thinks the same...
*History isn't there for You to like or dislike. It's there for You to learn from it. And if it offends you, even better. Because then You are less likely to repeat it. It's not yours to erase - It belongs to all of us...*
Re: Still Holding On
Thank you so much, Mike, for providing further feedback and even taking the time to find a reference photo! I see your point about the shade beneath the left-hand roots and the subtle cast shadows and I will bring that out.
I see your point about making the cave totally dark, at the top (and thanks for pointing out the dark area around the rabbit in "Overlooked!" that makes sense now.). Your point about sharp edges was helpful as well.
I will bring out the banding on the sandstone and try stippling (which I have done before). It actually was even smoother (if you can believe it), but I see how it still is too smooth.
I am definitely still at the HOW to draw stage, but I selected this topic because it does have a story to me and I do need to concentrate on that. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction,
I'm looking forward to working on this piece with your suggestions.
I see your point about making the cave totally dark, at the top (and thanks for pointing out the dark area around the rabbit in "Overlooked!" that makes sense now.). Your point about sharp edges was helpful as well.
I will bring out the banding on the sandstone and try stippling (which I have done before). It actually was even smoother (if you can believe it), but I see how it still is too smooth.
I am definitely still at the HOW to draw stage, but I selected this topic because it does have a story to me and I do need to concentrate on that. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction,
I'm looking forward to working on this piece with your suggestions.