DrawWithMike.net

Hi, everyone -
I can hardly believe it's been 4 years since I picked up my graphite pencils! I looked at the date of my last drawing and may have gasped audibly when I realized how many years have flown by. I know....it's atrocious!!

I'm hoping for your thoughts and help on a drawing of a raven that I currently have on my drawing board.

My main hope here is that I haven't forgotten everything I learned in Mike's classes - LOL . But aside from that, I have a few specific questions that I wanted to ask, which are related to finishing off the stump on which he's perched, which is only "roughly mapped in" in the attached image:


1) Detail in the Stump
The stump is heavily detailed in the original reference photo. Would you expect the stump to be very detailed in this drawing, or should I dial-down the level of detail because it will compete too much with the raven?

2) Value of the stump
Do you think the stump should as dark as the bird -- or would you draw it more lightly so it doesn't distract from the main subject? What's the best thing to do for balancing the overall drawing?

3) Finishing the bottom
Since I'm not drawing the complete stump, how should I finish off the bottom?
Should I "fade out" the bottom of the stump with irregular lines, or would you make the lines end all at the same point (such as as straight line at roughly the bottom of his tail feathers)?

I'd welcome any feedback on how to improve the drawing in general, too. After all, it's been a while!

Despite the poor image quality, this is drawn on Conqueror Diamond White. So, it's a bright white background, not dingy gray as captured by iphone.
Thank you so much in advance!

Firstly, I have to say that your raven is magnificent!! The detail and subtle variation in value is expertly done, in my opinion. It’s wonderful to see work of this quality.

As far as the stump goes, it really depends on how much space you have on your paper. If you can, you might consider drawing down the left side to well below the tail, but then angle upward toward the right side of the stump, always fading toward the bottom. Something that used to help me was to scan, or take a photo, and then either print it out and experiment on the print, or draw digitally if you have the software. This way you can try out an idea without fear of making a mistake on your original.

kcondon wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 6:17 pm The stump is heavily detailed in the original reference photo. Would you expect the stump to be very detailed in this drawing, or should I dial-down the level of detail because it will compete too much with the raven?

I think you've got it about right. Ultimately, you're not trying to depict reality, you're telling a story. In this case, your story might be as simple as wanting to display what you see as the beauty of a Raven to viewers of your drawing. Heavy detail of the stump is not going to ADD anything to the story, and will probably compete with the Raven for attention. My personal rule is "If it doesn't add to the story, omit it", or at least minimise it. For example, your Raven has no background. Good decision! What extra information could its inclusion add?

2) Value of the stump
Do you think the stump should as dark as the bird -- or would you draw it more lightly so it doesn't distract from the main subject? What's the best thing to do for balancing the overall drawing?

OK, let's try that... Sometimes, bottom weight can help balance the drawing. But here, I think it simply demotes the Raven from BIG BLACK BIRD to something rather mundane and no darker than a post.

3) Finishing the bottom
Since I'm not drawing the complete stump, how should I finish off the bottom?
Should I "fade out" the bottom of the stump with irregular lines, or would you make the lines end all at the same point (such as a straight line at roughly the bottom of his tail feathers)?

Actually, that's am important question, and not, I think, one easily answered. My first reaction was to have a downward-curving base that faded out. That's because the post is cylindrical, and a flat/straight base doesn't look quite right... But now I'm undecided. So I played around with it. I was aiming for a suggestion of curve without it being a distraction. Then I notched it slightly at the right, because the curve was too regular, which attracted unwanted attention. And then I finally faded it very gently, because I found any sense of it actually ending just created a distraction. Personally, I'd gently stroke that bottom edge with Blu-Tack and very gradually lighten it, because that's easier than trying to draw the fade out. I think that works now - just my personal opinion - because the base of the post doesn't attract my attention at all, but it does feed my eye up to the hard edge of the top. And that in turn introduces me to the Raven.

I'd welcome any feedback on how to improve the drawing in general, too. After all, it's been a while!

I think it's superb. And a little over-detailed. But that will occur at some stage. It's just my impression, but I think everyone goes through the "Detail is King" stage - and HAS TO - before you can begin to divide necessary from unnecessary, and focus on the former.

Finally, I suggest you try what I was just doing - manipulate a photo to discover what works and what doesn't non-destructively. Instances like this are partly why the current videos are exploring the uses of Affinity Photo.

Since experimenting with an IMAGE is far more preferable than trying that on a DRAWING.... and I'd saved what I'd done to Kara's lovely Raven drawing... I thought it might help you if I posted the steps.

From my viewpoint... bad idea! Because what I thought would be a 2-hour job has taken over a day - but I've learned a lot from using unfamiliar capture methods and more editing tricks along the way.

So, here's Kara's Raven critique, which answered and demonstrated the effect of making the post darker and fading out its base. As well as returning the paper to white, of course.


To view this in the VIDEO section: Critique: RAVEN

Although your video is meant to help Kara answer her questions, it’s so useful for all of us to follow along. Wonderful explanation of how to use software to design & correct any artwork. Thank you!

Apologies for my delay in response. I’ve been here reading your posts, but due to a problem with my internet provider, I’ve been unable to post and have received and error each time I’ve attempted. It’s akin to being on a phone call and saying “ I can hear you…can you hear me?”. Technology can be quite frustrating at times!

But… it can equally be a godsend at other times, such as in Mike’s wonderful illustration of Affinity. I can see definitely how beneficial this software could be. I love the concept of trying out ideas via the software (or even via photocopy). It’s one of those solutions that seems so obvious, only AFTER someone has pointed out how obvious it is

Although I feel somewhat guilty to have robbed Mike of a full day to answer my questions by video , I must say that I have received far more information and insight in this post than I could ever have learned on my own! You both are amazing! I’m excited to get back to the drawing board to try this out!

Thank you so very much!!
Kara

kcondon wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:44 am I love the concept of trying out ideas via the software (or even via photocopy).

Oh! That brought back old memories!

Been there. Done that. I recall, on more than a couple of occasions, photocopying a partially-completed development sketch and then trying out different ideas in the blank portion. Here's one (the left-hand half is a photocopy of an earlier dry run): That's when I realised that what I was envisaging was physically impossible. And even if it was... it would drag your eye way back and out of the frame, away from the action.

But this wraps itself around the action; and it's all to the same scale and depth, and believable: "OVERLOOKED!"

These days, of course, I'd use a photo of it in Affinity and experiment with that - and/or print it out to try out ideas. In my case, the experiments were carried out during PLANNING. I don't think I ever paused during a drawing to try something new - but I could have.

Although I feel somewhat guilty to have robbed Mike of a full day to answer my questions by video??, I must say that I have received far more information and insight in this post than I could ever have learned on my own!

Don't feel guilty! That you better understood from the video made the work completely worthwhile. And while you're perfecting your drawing skills, I'm learning more about filming and editing.

This is a great drawing well done