Scribbler wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:31 pm
320gsm Conqueror seems to be an indestructible paper. So I would have opted for that.
"Indestructible" describes it very well. That long-grain structure really does make it almost bomb-proof.
LindasPencils wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:17 pm
Personally, I like a little more tooth to my paper. I have found the Conqueror slips and pools a little too much for my liking when using washes.
My thoughts:
- I think the Olin would be too slippy and shiny for my personal technique. I like a little bit of tooth to my hot press paper.
- Question, will the 320 'roll' without creasing or denting? A dent in the paper can ruin your areas of tone (as you know).
Over the years I've developed a way of rolling papers. As the second turn begins, I've learnt to tighten the roll further by gently squeezing. Sounds bad, but works a treat. In other words, I've learnt to roll quite tightly without causing any damage.
Most folk at the other end - so I'm told - roll them the other way, and then lay them flat under a few books for a day or two.
And as for "dents"... Those 50 sheets of Ivorex I bought? The guy who loaded them into my car, dented them all with his fingers. I didn't discover until later. But for every drawing, I had to press that dent to the drawing board as I drew over that area. So, I try really hard to NOT cause dents.
Otherwise, have you considered shipping flat?
Flat is only really an option for 30 sheets or more. Below that, it's cheaper to ship 20 in two tubes. That was true until recently. I used to ship by Royal Mail, and ship 30 sheets or more by courier (like FedEx). Now I ship almost exclusively by courier. However, flat packing requires more packaging than rolling, so it's more expensive for smaller orders. Also, I shipped flat between sheets of 2mm MDF. That used to cost £2 per parcel, but MDF has more than tripled in price lately.
Your sample pack idea is excellent. I will have to pick some up just to try and maybe be converted.
Rather than ship A2 sheets, I'm thinking of cutting them into four, so Sample Packs would contain four A4 sized sheets of both papers - usable but less waste if a paper doesn't work out. And much cheaper to ship in an A4 envelope.
Laurene wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 11:39 am
I think I would lean toward the Conqueror. I'm a little worried that the total lack of tooth on the Olin might make layering more problematic.
When I changed from Mellotex to Conqueror, I sent you both Conqueror and Olin to try. That time you favoured Olin... but I chose Conqueror because it was much easier for me to source (Olin was a US paper then). Now my supplier is manufacturing both, so that's not a problem.
I was surprised by how smooth and slippery Olin is, but I very quickly discounted that "fault" because smooth darks were so easy to obtain. There's a two-day gap between the first and second parts of the video. And I edited it down to 20 minutes by cutting parts out. One part covered layering, but both papers performed well, so it was redundant.
But I did, and still do, find the lack of feedback from the Olin to be a problem. I'm used to a little effort being used to draw on Conqueror Diamond White, and that effort transmits back to my hand to aid control. Olin is like skating on ice. There's some feel, but not much. However, it's a cheaper paper than Conqueror Diamond White, so I'll buy in a couple of packs in case anyone finds it suits them. Or it might suit a particular drawing that demands a paper with almost no visible texture.
I wonder if the graphite would smudge more easily on such a slippery surface. The stark white colour is also off-putting to me.
It looks like it should smudge, but doesn't seem to. Blending on the two papers felt the same, too. And I agree about the colour. Compared to the Conqueror, which I've seen as being bright white, Olin has a cold blue tint that makes Conqueror look cream. But I visually and emotionally prefer the warmth of the Conqueror.
Having said all that, it would be fun to try a simpler drawing on it, but if I'm going to spend many hours on a detailed drawing, I would definitely choose the Conqueror.
Me too. And to save you time
... I found your drawings from 2016:
CONQUEROR DIAMOND WHITE:
Laurene-Test-CQD.jpg
OLIN (type unknown):
Laurene-Test-OLIN.jpg
Now, those are what I call
proper tests!
And this is what you had to say at that time:
In both cases, I limited myself to 2H, HB, and 2B pencils as well as graphite powder so that the results would be comparable. I chose raccoons as subjects because they allowed for a wide range of values.
• STURDINESS: The edge Conqueror paper tore when tape was removed. Both papers feel thinner than Mellotex (at least that was my impression), but have a firm and smooth surface which was easy to work with.
• DETAIL: I was able to control detail on both papers, but I found that the Olin paper smudged more easily.
• LAYERING: I was able to layer more easily on the Conqueror paper, again because the graphite had a tendency to smudge more easily on the Olin paper
• ERASING: I was able to erase very cleanly on both papers. I easily pulled out white hair using either Blu-Tack or a Tombow eraser.
• INDENTING: Worked very well on both papers.
• BLENDING: Blending with a 2H pencil over a 2B worked well on both papers, but I found I had a little more control with the Conqueror paper.
• GRAPHITE POWDER: Graphite powder went on smoothly on both paper and lifted well with Blu-Tack.
• SCANNING: Both paper scan well, which is important.