DrawWithMike.net

Hello

Well my drawing supplies finally arrived( more or less ), so I can start doing Mike's exercises. I say more or less because the Strathmore Bristol I ordered is "back ordered from the US" which means a delay of 4-5 weeks. In the meantime, the art supply store sent me a package of "Vellum Board" which is really flimsy at 180gsm but to get started it will have to do.

I ordered a set of Staedtler 2mm lead holders, a set of Pentel 0.5mm mechanical pencils and a set of UNI lead holders and lead refills for each in grades 4B, 2B, HB, 2H and 4H. The UNI lead holders were at the advice of a friend, who like me has the beginnings of arthritis in his dominant hand, and he told me that the UNI holders being smaller and lighter were much easier for him to handle and after using them for just a little while, I can say he is absolutely right!

As I explained in my introduction to the Forum, I have some experience with academic drawing on Stonehenge paper using Staetdler Lumograph wood-cased pencils sharpened to a needle point like the attachment. For those not familiar with Stonehenge, suffice it to say that a needle point is needed to fill the tooth of the paper and with a point like that FINESSE and NO PRESSURE is required - along with constant maintenance of that point.

So here I am, no experience with the Bristol paper, no experience with lead holders or mechanical pencils, or with chisel points. What does one do in a situation like that - academic training says "Do a Value Scale!" see attached ( centre value boxes are computer generated ). I'm going to make 2 observations about the Value Scales - first the UNI leads ( from Japan? ) for both the mechanical pencils and the lead holders are darker than their equivalent Staedtler grades and secondly, the Staedtler leads have the very annoying habit of becoming "polished" (very slick) after a very few passes over the paper and then start to deposit almost no graphite onto the paper, so I have to either press harder (not going to happen) or touch up the lead on an emory/sandpaper board. I'm not really sure if this problem is because of the chisel point or the paper but I suspect the paper since the UNI mechanical leads did not exhibit this problem. If time permits I may do a value scale with the UNI 2mm lead holders and a chisel point to see if they exhibit the same problem.

The remaining attachments are the exercises suggested in Mike's "First Steps" videos.

Critiques/comments welcome!

For those not familiar with Stonehenge, suffice it to say that a needle point is needed to fill the tooth of the paper and with a point like that FINESSE and NO PRESSURE is required - along with constant maintenance of that point.

If you wanted to achieve the exact opposite of what works for me - that's it.

My way... Chisel point; lots of pressure when it's needed. It's only the result that matters. But finesse is good too when smoothness is required more than depth of coverage. And bear in mind that I work on Conqueror Diamond White, which is long-grain and can withstand a lot of pressure with minimal to no damage.

(centre value boxes are computer generated)... first the UNI leads (from Japan?) for both the mechanical pencils and the lead holders are darker than their equivalent Staedtler grades and secondly...

Computer generated - great idea! Gives you something technically perfect to aim for. Uni are Japanese (Mitsubishi). And there isn't a universal grade scale. The Japanese prefer a darker HB writing pencil, so all their grades have to shift to agree with that.

the Staedtler leads have the very annoying habit of becoming "polished" (very slick) after a very few passes over the paper and then start to deposit almost no graphite onto the paper, so I have to either press harder (not going to happen)

That's interesting and not something I'd be likely to experience, because I've only ever used Staedtler leads. That said, there is a different between the Lumograph wood-cased and the clutch pencil leads. I've also used Derwent (but only in the videos) and they wouldn't be my first choice for drawing. And "press harder (not going to happen)"... well, try it? As I said, it’s the result that matters, not how you achieve it.

I intended to critique all four of your exercises individually, but there's no need. I'll start with the only problem:

CONS
Your blacks are seriously light. And I mean seriously. Excellently rendered, but a shadow of what they could be. I really cannot stress how important solid intense blacks are.

If your darkest value is, say, only 30% of that achievable, you've now lost the ability to use 70% of the value scale. That results in work that appears to be flat, because the restricted value range damages the perceived three-dimensional form. It's like drawing a scene of a grey, misty, overcast day. Take a look at DRAWING DARK VALUES.

PROS
From a technical point of view, all of your shading is wonderfully smooth. It's notably devoid of gaps and over-heavy lines. And beautifully executed!

I suggest you try heavily carving 2B (or 4B) into a sample of paper to see what the result is. If you damage the paper... good! Because now you know its limitations. Oh, and try that first with the FLAT FACE of a chisel point, because that will cause the least damage. If necessary, shade again using the edge (to fill any pits in the tooth), but that should require less pressure. This is your darkest value: the UNI 4B. But your script is darker, and (I'm assuming) the printed text is most probably black ink. I'd be aiming for the 4B and 2B to be as dark as the latter. At least as dark as my right-hand adjustment, and preferably darker.

Mike

First things first ...

There may have been a misunderstanding. I am NOT using the academic point I illustrated, nor am I using Stonehenge paper. I am using (or trying to) a chisel point and the flimsy 180gsm "vellum" paper that the art dealer sent me while waiting for the Strathmore to arrive. The problem I am having getting the blacks is that the paper simply will not withstand anymore pressure than I'm currently applying -- hence the comment "not going to happen". I actually did try a "pressure experiment" on the paper and ripped a 1/2 inch hole with a 4B chisel point pencil. In order to get the blacks that you want, on this paper I would have to move to a Lumograph BLACK wood-cased pencil since Staedtler does not (to my knowledge) make BLACK leads for clutch pencils.

Another problem - the "annoying" behaviour of the Staedtler leads that I mentioned, was my own fault in the following way. I was forming the chisel point using an emory board that I had from sharpening academic points. That board is about 3/16 or 1/4 inches thick and using it causes the angle of the chisel point to be very slightly different from what would be produced if the point was made on paper. So when I lowered the emory chisel point to my normal drawing angle, only a portion of the flat face is actually touching the paper when you start so you get a very scratchy, dark and linear first couple of strokes. Once the point wears down to the proper angle, the flat surface lays down even (but slightly lighter) layers of graphite. I mistakenly thought that the lead was getting "polished" but it isn't - it's behaving the way it's supposed to. The mistake was using the emory board in the first place and not getting the correct drawing angle. This is a very subtle thing and it took me a while to figure it out ...

I completely agree with you that the blacks are not dark enough but other than changing to Lumograph BLACK pencil I have sort of exhausted the value range that this paper can support with 4B as the softest pencil. Moving to 6B leads might help a little, but they aren't available for clutch pencils.

I might wait till my Strathmore Smooth arrives and then re-do the exercise or alternatively, maybe I can find some Strathmore 500 Plate which might be closer to your Conqueror. Now that I think of it, I should enquire to see if anyone has Conqueror Diamond here ...

I just made a tour of 2 local stationary stores and I did find a package of 10 sheets 8 1/2 x 11 vellum board at 210 gsm that is substantially thicker than the previous paper. I will give this a try and see how much pressure it can withstand. Wish me luck and I'll keep you posted ...

wayneCol wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:22 am There may have been a misunderstanding. I am NOT using the academic point I illustrated, nor am I using Stonehenge paper.

No misunderstanding - just me being flippant. I thought you'd perfectly described the opposite of the way I work

For example, a sharp point needs constant resharpening, where a chisel point only needs the flat face to be scrubbed (a couple of seconds at most) to sharpen the edge.

The problem I am having getting the blacks is that the paper simply will not withstand any more pressure than I'm currently applying -- hence the comment "not going to happen". I actually did try a "pressure experiment" on the paper and ripped a 1/2 inch hole with a 4B chisel point pencil.

I took the "not going to happen" to mean it's something you would never countenance doing. I'm glad I misunderstood that. Although, what works for me might not work for you. But you DO need strong darks - the darker, the better - to give any drawing a three-dimensional boost.

Also, I think I was lucky with papers. I went to a very large paper wholesaler with a pencil and said, "OK, what have you got?" Fortunately, the sales guy pandered to my naive cheek and humoured me. I left with 100 A2 sheets of Ivorex - which lasted me 15 years. And that either influenced the way I work, or it suited the way my work developed. Either way, it was a lucky day for me.

In order to get the blacks that you want, on this paper I would have to move to a Lumograph BLACK wood-cased pencil since Staedtler does not (to my knowledge) make BLACK leads for clutch pencils.

I have Lumogrpah BLACK, but only for a future video, and I've yet to test it. I did use CARBON pencils at one time, mixed with graphite, but I eventually decided to be a graphite purist.

That reminds me of something I meant to mention in your last post... You mentioned Staedtler CARBON leads in your clutch pencil. You're correct, but it causes a lot of confusion. Staedtler leads are GRAPHITE, but Staedtler at some point decided to describe them as CARBON. Technically, graphite is a form of carbon - but so are SOOT and DIAMONDS. Staedtler CARBON leads are NOT the same as carbon in, for example, Wolff, General, or Conté carbon pencils. To further confuse the issue, I believe Staedtler BLACK uses a mixture of graphite and carbon.

To find out why I discarded the use of carbon, read my blog post.

...was my own fault... I was forming the chisel point using an emery board that I had from sharpening academic points... it causes the angle of the chisel point to be very slightly different from what would be produced if the point was made on paper. So when I lowered the emery chisel point to my normal drawing angle, only a portion of the flat face is actually touching the paper when you start, so you get a very scratchy, dark and linear first couple of strokes. Once the point wears down to the proper angle, the flat surface lays down even...

Thanks! That's an important point that hadn't occurred to me. The act of scrubbing the point to an angled flat is critical to its use. Sharpening the lead and then scrubbing the point ensures that it's at your natural drawing angle.

Also, in use, if soft edges are of absolutely paramount importance, I sometimes scrub again while slightly rocking the face in all directions. That ensures the FLAT is a slightly raised DOME, so its edges don't catch the paper while I'm shading. But its angle is still at my natural drawing angle.

Now that I think of it, I should enquire to see if anyone has Conqueror Diamond here...

It's unlikely. In the sizes and weights we artists need, Conqueror is an archival printer's paper. So you need to try printers and not art stores. It comes in packs of 100 sheets. Or you can buy it from me, of course (250gsm weight). Which reminds me, I need to reorder for my online shop. I usually have 600 sheets in stock, but I'm on my last pack at present.

Mike
I got a different brand of Vellum board at 210 gsm which is much stiffer that the previous stuff. I tried a "pressure test" and the leads break before the paper surface gets damaged, so I think that's a good sign and I went ahead and did a value scale on the new board to see if I can get the "pressure blacks" that you want. This is my attempt ... let me know!
Wayne

Excellent gradation from 1 to 10. And lovely smooth shading. As you're using single grades, I think this is probably as dark as you need to achieve at present. When you progress to layering, you'll find that's an ideal way to darken your values.

And I still think your writing is darker than your darkest dark, which might be because the point is sharper and filling the tooth.

Writing is done with a black gel pen (liquid ink) so you're right it fills the tooth by flowing into all the crevices. I don't know if graphite (carbon) has a liquid state....

So my choice for clutch pencils is going to be the UNI with the UNI leads - the leads are darker and seem to go on smoother and the short pencil is easier on my hand. Mechanical pencils will be Pentel with UNI 0.5 mm leads. Now I'll do a value scale with those 2 and then re-do the other exercises. I must say say that even though I've never used mechanical pencils before, I really like the feeling of control I get when using them, the fine point is exactly where my ancient eyes think it is (not always true of 2.0mm leads), the fine lead seems to fill the paper easier without a lot of pressure and the fine detail ... WOW! I really like them - pity I never tried them before.

wayneCol wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:28 pm ...I've never used mechanical pencils before, I really like the feeling of control I get when using them, the fine point is exactly where my ancient eyes think it is (not always true of 2.0mm leads), the fine lead seems to fill the paper easier without a lot of pressure and the fine detail ... WOW! I really like them - pity I never tried them before.

I had a couple of mechanical pencils in the very early days, but I soon discarded them in favour of clutch pencils. I don't know a lot about them, except that the leads use a polymer instead of a clay/wax mix (for strength). And I imagine flat, seamless shading with a point of such a small surface area would be more problematic.

On the other hand, the thin lead should fill the tooth more completely. I know Diane Wright uses both 0.5 mechanicals and 2mm clutch, and when layering, uses the 0.5 on top of the 2mm for better coverage. In that situation, I use the edge of my 2mm chisel point to achieve the same result.

Mechanical or clutch, I agree with you that the feeling of control is greater than with wood-cased. And, in my case, I love that they are a constant. Nothing ever changes - weight, length, balance - so I know exactly how they perform, every time I pick one up.

I still have a day or 2 before I have to hop on the plane so I thought I would submit this. Now that I have decided on the Pentel mechanicals and the UNI clutches to move forward, I'm going to do the Value Scale and the "Test Drive" exercises with them. Here is the Value Scale. I have switched to a 9 Value Scale because it's easier to estimate values if you have a "middle" to work from. I really worked hard to get the blacks darker and fill the tooth and I feel like I'm getting the hang of this chisel point and the heavy pressure. Thus far no paper damage.
The thing to note as well is that values 2 and 3 were done with a 4H lead, but even with VERY light application pressure, the lead when applied is darker than both these values, so the samples had to be knocked back with the kneaded eraser in both cases. A 6H or 8H lead might be nice in these cases, but the Japanese don't make them.

Rather than adjust by eye, I let Affinity Photo "do its thing" and adjust the contrast and levels. So, I'm assuming this is close to your original? In that case...

I really worked hard to get the blacks darker and fill the tooth, and I feel like I'm getting the hang of this chisel point and the heavy pressure. Thus far, no paper damage.

Your darks are solid and, without layering, probably as dark as you can manage. They're certainly very usable within a drawing.

The "pressure" might concern some artists - but not me. It depends on the final result you want to achieve. Personally, I prefer to produce "punchy" drawings; with some impact. That requires strong darks. And they, in turn, produce the most believable solid three-dimensional form.

I concede that using pressure isn't for everyone. But if that's what it takes to produce the blacks I desire, then I'll use as much pressure as I need to. As long as it doesn't damage the paper, there's no harm done.

The thing to note as well is that values 2 and 3 were done with a 4H lead, but even with VERY light application pressure, the lead when applied is darker than both these values, so the samples had to be knocked back with the kneaded eraser in both cases. A 6H or 8H lead might be nice in these cases, but the Japanese don't make them.

I'm fairly certain Staedtler no longer make 6H and 8h for 2m clutch pencils - a result of CAD taking over from technical drawing, I believe. That said, I do have a couple of old packs of both... but I'm securely guarding them.

Might I suggest that you mix your brands? You could use Staedtler, or Faber, for your hard grades, and Uni for HB and softer. That's a perfectly valid way of working, as long as you always use that mix of brands for those grades.

Wishing you a safe and fruitful journey... and we're looking forward to your return here.